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Author Topic: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box  (Read 5776 times)

Sasha

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sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« on: February 26, 2010, 05:45:09 AM »

Please post your idea about snews 2.0 only with screen shot and also please feel free to comment. Thank you.  

Keep clean this thread. I do not want see any post about snews 2.0 with lot of talk but not screen shot - it is my topic  ;D -. I want under this topic to see some screen shot and is easy to see what people want and what they talking about. So please keep it clean guys. Comments welcome.

Dear visitor if you know something about php,java script please feel free to register an account and join us to develop new cms snews 2.0. Any help would be most welcome.  
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 10:41:30 AM by Sasha »
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Sasha

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 05:46:54 AM »

simple snews 2.0 =  

better css in admin panel (separated from rest of template),
maybe change to admin panel too (total redesign)
separated email and submit comment boxes in css,(in case people want to redesign css they not need to go into core to change all this code and if you change css style for email button you don't change submit comment button too)
add reply to comments,
admin comments different style (good for many bloggers) chose in admin panel,
adding comments no#
adding newsletter form
pagination better style
maybe use some of jquery too
admin login form stand alone (not like now in middle of template) looks very ugly
add  retrieve lost password box ,password recovery,not like now in admin panel,this need to be done outside admin panel
better official template for snews,(important current template looks so ugly sorry but ugly is ugly  ;D
and for end  =  total user freedom in css to change things easy

 
I think also official logo for snews need to be changed too..This one looks odd but that is me..

Now lets buy mr.bakercad beer so we can start moving  :D

I can help with any css design,new official template design and also logo/graphic design if (needed)  




Login form - stand alone (example)




Password recovery (example)
this can be also done using sliding ajax or jquery



It is good to have password recovery outside of admin panel  


Article data and comment no# (example)





Comment style (example)
Admin comment style and no# of comments




Reply comment style (example)
Css style: reply button,reply comment background,reply text





Page Paginator (example)






Admin panel (example) pure css




Logos (example)


« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 11:17:10 AM by Sasha »
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TheTick

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2010, 03:20:56 PM »

As someone who has used sNews to develop professional websites in the past, I have a deep affection for the script. But I grow frustrated with it as well, and it pains me as I would like to use the script more than I do.

However, the community has to ask itself seriously WHAT it wants to do.

I cannot stress this more - the primary roadblock for me for using sNews more extensively is the lack of multiple template use in the core, a weak and ill thought out "extra" deployment, and having certain types of content presentation (article, comment placement, date etc) being hardcoded into the core - such that I have to hack the php to adjust presentation of content. This should be done via a template in the admin. Multiple Users would also be nice out of the box, but not super high on my priority list.

I think most of the stuff Sasha mentions are bells and whistles that don't need to be in the core. Newsletter, more jquery (why? what for?) These can be done as hacks/plugins/third party additions.

What I did like form Sasha's list are a) numbered id for the comments would be a good one b) a password recovery method and c) admin panel redo

I ask the Dudes to take a look at another simple "new kid on the block" CMS <a href="http://get-simple.info/">Get Simple</a> - it excells where sNews is lacking - primarily - custom templates per page and a plugin system (with a great custom fields hack - which is what Extras should be).

For a real world example I am currently working on a website for an architect. I need a couple of custom page layouts to display his projects...three primary different templates. I wanted to use sNews for this project desperately, but wasted two days of non-billable time with the script trying to get multiple templates working in hacks (thanks to MDJ for his suggestions!) to the code and eventually giving up and going back to Textpattern. And I get angry because to me PRESENTATION of content should be the main aim of a "content management system".

Now, I'm not saying I want sNews to BE Wordpress or Textpattern or whatever. I like the simplicity, speed and size of the script, and the philosophy behind it, but in this day and age lack of multiple templates out of the box is simply asking for your script to be left behind in the dust. If you guys WANT snews to be a simple blogging platform or aimed at really small sites with a single template, well then that is one path of development for sure, but I think you've already squared that circle. So then what's next if you want to develop the script to the next level?

I am a frontend developer - html, css, jquery. My php skills are close to nonexistent, so I don't know what would be involved in making my suggestions a reality - if it difficult or impossible with the current critical path of sNews development, or if it would so bloat the script as to undermine the philosophical framework of the script.

BUT..I see other simple, small scripts offering multiple templates and a more flexible custom field creation and deployment that I scratch my head.

Is there a particular reason that the Dudes could address as to why multiple templates (or any of my other concerns) is never addressed as an issue in core development?

Best guys....
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 03:23:26 PM by TheTick »
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nukpana

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2010, 06:48:20 PM »

Your right Tick and according to Luka multiple templates should be in 2.0.  But it's not like you can't do that now.  For instance, your template index could look like this:

Code: (PSEUDO CODE!) [Select]
<?php include( 'template_functions.php' );

if ( 
_CONTENT == 'page' ) include ( 'page_template.tpl');
if ( 
_CONTENT == 'article' ) include( 'article_template.tpl');

?>

Additionally, my opinion, is 2.0 should even be a further hands off approach to front-end content.  sure the original approach was fine for a simple template but as the needs grow, the system should allow better customization, without the user touching the core system.  The system should manage the content, but also serve it and allow the developer (front/back) to present it how he/she wants.  A simple foreach loop can show off your article content - styled how you want:

Code: (In a template function file) [Select]
<?php

$articles 
articleList();
foreach ( 
$articles as $article ) {
   echo 
'<h2>'$article['title'].'</h2>';
   echo 
$article['text'];
}

?>


When you think about this, including plugins, then the core could be smaller and simplier, and the users can add functionality.  Things like contact and sitemap wouldn't be in the "core", nor would a pages or categories list since that would be somethign the template writer would add.

Noting plugins as well, and yes that should be in the next iteration of the system.  It should be simple too like for example:
Code: (pseudo code again) [Select]
<?php

add_plugin
'author-setting' );

function 
author-setting() {
   
$author = new Setting'author' );
   
$author->addSetting'author''Me' );
      
$settingInput '<input name="setting[author]" value="{Author}" />';
   
$author->addAdminInterface$settingInput );
      
$authorValidation preg_match('A-Z, 0-9');
   
$author->addAdminValidation$authorValidation );
}

?>

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TheTick

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2010, 07:36:41 PM »

Yes, thank you nukpana for articulating it better than I could.
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Sasha

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2010, 08:04:06 PM »

I like to see "plugin" too and also comment reply.Main thing is also password recovery.We dont have this now and you can change pass only if you loged in which is not good thing.If i forgot my pass then what i need to do?Reinstall hole cms again.?This is some example only to give you some idea.(I know how i can changed pass in data base but meny people dont).i hope we going to start building something from here :)
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Keyrocks

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2010, 08:47:15 PM »

I cannot stress this more - the primary roadblock for me for using sNews more extensively is the lack of multiple template use in the core...
........ I see other simple, small scripts offering multiple templates and a more flexible custom field creation and deployment that I scratch my head.
........ Is there a particular reason that the Dudes could address as to why multiple templates (or any of my other concerns) is never addressed as an issue in core development?

In answer to your question... I think I recall a discussion among the Dudes about including multple templates when we were first discussing what should or would be included in 1.7 before work began on it. Luka has always insisted that one of the guiding principles for future development should always remain as keeping the sNews core as simple as possible. So when we had the discussion about what to include in 1.7, we listed a lot of features, voted on them and features like multiple templating fell off the list in the interest of keeping the sNews core as simple as possible.

Multiple templates has always been a key feature for as well; I have one site that uses 10 different templates, including one just for the Admin panels. I've used Backercad's Switcherizer2 package for that and several 1.6 projects mainly because I like the way it functions.

For the past few months, I've been on a sort of holiday from sNews projects and spending my time on an asp.NET (costly, not free) project powered by Community Server 2008.5 and one of my first tasks (after learning how it all worked) was to build a brand new site-wide theme (another word for template). While the CS engine doesn't allow the theme to be used on specific categories or pages, I really like the way it functions... and would dearly love to figure out how we could adapt the same functionality to sNews.

Themes can be chosen from the Site Configuration Panel in the Admin. When you choose a theme from a drop-down, you are presented with its Configuration panels - Home Page | General Layout | Header |Navigation Bar | Body | Sidebar | Footer - which are generated by the theme's theme.config file. The Header, Navigation Bar and Footer panels, for example, let you enter styling values such as height, top border color, background color, text color, background image URL, header logo URL, font, font size, etc. The General Layout panel does pretty much the same, along with content width, maximum width, maximum height, text and link colors (normal, visited and active) as well as overall body background color and a background image URL.

When you are finished setting up all of the panels and hit SAVE, the settings are saved to a d-base table for that purpose. You can also EXPORT your settings, which saves them in an XML file on your your local machine's hard drive. If you've configured another theme, its settings over-write the previous theme's settings in the d-base table, but each time you change themes, you can also IMPORT the XML settings file and save the settings in one step.

By default, the site's styling is pre-set in style.css files but any theme's configured settings automatically over-ride the default styles.

Now... if we could adapt this approach for sNews templates... have the settings for several templates saved to a d-base table... and be able to assign templates to specific categories and/or pages... I think we'd have a pretty damned good system.
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TheTick

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2010, 09:33:45 PM »

I dunno..those theming systems always seem overtly complicated to me. I like simple access to an entire page of html - you could certainly add tags for repeatable "extras"/"custom fields" into them where needed...but why separate things into "header", "footer"?..etc..in complex theming packages (this always drove me nuts about Wordpress & Smarty templating). I prefer the method that textpattern & GetSimple uses. A theme/layout is a page of html that you have access to via the admin. If I want to break it down into sections I can do so through, using sNews vernacular "extras" that I can choose..there's a logo extra, a navigation and maybe footer extra..or not, whatever I choose, I'm not locked into a "theming system"..and in the layouts I can just do just like we've always done with snews, use a php include for that particular piece of repeatable code which I create via "extras" or "custom field" or whatever you want to call it..

I guess as a front end guy who's most comfortable writing html/css raw in notepad, the other systems always seem unelegant and clunky to me.

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nukpana

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2010, 09:50:51 PM »

I like to see "plugin" too and also comment reply.Main thing is also password recovery.We dont have this now and you can change pass only if you loged in which is not good thing.If i forgot my pass then what i need to do?Reinstall hole cms again.?This is some example only to give you some idea.(I know how i can changed pass in data base but meny people dont).i hope we going to start building something from here :)
CSS Tricks has a cool tutorial on Building a Web App from Scratch that has a password recovery system in it.  Since you are going to learn PHP, you can look at this as well.  IIRC, CSS Tricks is a front-end oriented site, so it should be easy to learn and follow. Maybe you can get ideas and start a mod for 1.7, 2.0 or whatever comes
http://css-tricks.com/examples/WebAppFromScratch/

Comment reply comes from code and the database.  Pretty similar to subpages, subcategories, etc.
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Fred K

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2010, 01:07:03 AM »

For me personally, being a design-oriented front end kinda guy, I detest "template" or "theming" systems but I do share Tick's want for an easier way of handling content presentation in different ways depending on context (which is why the really simple public/admin split mod ever came to be, as an example). Almost all my sNews mods and stupidities have been geared towards the presentation side of things and I suspect that's something that won't change much since I can't seem to get this bl**dy PHP thing to talk to me... oh, anyway, the thing I really like about sNews, ever since I found it, is its utter simplicity when it comes to applying 'skins' or styles to a site. The fact that it's more built for wholesale solutions than anything else is something that should/could/hopefully-will be addressed, but if sNews takes the same route as say modX or ExpressionEngine or even Wordpress when it comes to presentation (e.g. in-admin template/theme/skin systems relying on config files left and globals right), then I would be sad. I've been working on a couple of sites that are using a custom CMS which is relatively close to ExpressionEngine in how it's configured and in this work I've found myself longing for the sNews simplicity of constructing a site's "template". At the same time, this custom CMS (costly, mostly sold to corporations I believe) has some nice touches in terms of function items that are placed within the different template files.

KISS. Or at least KIASAP.
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nukpana

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2010, 03:45:20 AM »

Fred, Tick, really? Wordpress bad at templates/templating? I would like to beg to differ.  Judging from the Default template (wordpress/wp-content/themes/default/index.php), just a simple glance shows more customization abilities than current sNews (if you are comparing):

WP excerpt:
Code: [Select]
<div class="navigation">
<div class="alignleft"><?php next_posts_link('&laquo; Older Entries'?></div>
<div class="alignright"><?php previous_posts_link('Newer Entries &raquo;'?></div>
</div>

Current sNews: CSS only, otherwise you need to hack the core system.


I would like to see this:

Code: (template_functions.php - Pseudo Code) [Select]
<?php

function show_pagination() {
   
$page_links pagination(); // Template writer gets the base information from the core
   // Your HTML placed within here
   
?>

<div class="navigation">
<div class="alignleft"><a href="<?php $page_links['next_page']; ?>">Next Page</a></div>
<div class="alignright"><a href="<?php $page_links['previous_page']; ?>">Previous Page</a></div>
</div>
   <?php
   
/* The core would in theory output an array needed for the pagination links.  
      If you wanted numerical, I guess you can use PHP or Javascript to do the counting for you based on the information given
       $page_links['first_page']
       $page_links['previous_page']
       $page_links['next_page']
       $page_links['last_page']
  */
}

?>


Then, as noted above, in the template:
Code: [Select]
<?php

$articles 
articleList();
foreach ( 
$articles as $article ) {
   echo 
'<h2>'$article['title'].'</h2>';
   echo 
$article['text'];
}
show_pagination();

?>


This way, the system serves the base information, then the front end designers who know basic php (like the Ticks, Freds, Svens, in the community) can customize to their liking. It would also be an easier job for the Devs to develop as well. Someone just has to build it....
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 08:22:55 AM by nukpana »
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Sasha

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2010, 04:02:32 AM »

First nice to see you back Equalini :) wee need you second i like when people post code that way is easy to understand what people talking about..thanx for samples and i hope we move this forward for new cms snews 2.0..Also i would like to see Joost back too.We all have bad days and some times we have one of days when we are not happy about something but we all working to make snews better cms.We need to be friends first... I hope Joost read this and come back...
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 04:09:17 AM by Sasha »
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nukpana

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2010, 07:13:29 AM »

EQ? Where?
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Keyrocks

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2010, 05:14:13 PM »

EQ? Where?

We (and You) know who you are Jason. Dropping the Equilni account (which also superceded another account I recall) and continuing on with the Nukpana account is pointless, really. It's like changing T-shirts... but the person in the shirt is still the same person.  8)
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Fred K

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Re: sNews 2.0 Pandora's box
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2010, 05:41:12 PM »

Fred, Tick, really? Wordpress bad at templates/templating? I would like to beg to differ.  Judging from the Default template (wordpress/wp-content/themes/default/index.php), just a simple glance shows more customization abilities than current sNews (if you are comparing)
...
This way, the system serves the base information, then the front end designers who know basic php (like the Ticks, Freds, Svens, in the community) can customize to their liking. It would also be an easier job for the Devs to develop as well. Someone just has to build it....

Nuk, I didn't say that WP's (or EE's or modX' - or even GetSimple's for that matter) template system is bad, I said that I detest it. Why? Because of the number of files to keep track of, because of the workflow. I've built sites for WP and EE and modX and am currently building a couple of shortstops in GetSimple, plus using a custom CMS that also shares some traits with these. And I keep wanting to cross over to sNews to create the template.

One file for the HTML (unless we start tinkering with things in the system, then two files). One file for the CSS. Super-easy to develop locally and then just push the exact same crap online. Now, I'm not anywhere in terms of backend development so I would never claim that one system is "bad" and another is "good" because I can't back the claim with any certain knowledge. I can say that sNews is great to work with for front-end developers like me. Much easier than working with EE/WP/modX etc. That I do know. (And I know modX is spelled MODx and is a framework and not a CMS in the sNews sense ;))
But I also know that there are varying needs and wants between developers. I'm just stating how I feel and hope that it will be taken into account. Y'know? :)
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