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Author Topic: Designing websites - Vista.  (Read 17486 times)

Patric Ahlqvist

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Designing websites - Vista.
« on: January 24, 2008, 09:24:54 AM »

Hey dudes...

I have come across something I've never heard of before, thought I'd hear with you if this is anything common.

I have a client for whom I've made a site that on XP (and Mac OS) shows up in the 4 major browsers just as it should. This site have been shown for the client (by a third party) and the client responded with something like - "This do NOT look good, yaddiyadda yoo, blablabla" Why the third party guy asked why (He thinks it's great in Safari, IE, Opera and FF), and asked for screens...

Now, these screens is no more (he deleted them), but he reffers to them as -"looked like shit", hehe... The clients on IE7, Vista. My concern now is:

Are we not only forced to code for differnet browsers and a neglected webstandard, b ut also for an additional M$ OS ? Hav any of you lot experienced this, or even heard of it ?

PS. Just to clearify - The site do validate both CSS and XHTML DS.
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brauck

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 09:52:39 AM »

I always test my work in IE7/Vista too and up till now I didn't expierenced specific Vista/IE7-related problems; as a matter of fact IE7 is doing its job better then IE6.
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Patric Ahlqvist

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 09:58:21 AM »

That's what I thought it would do... But never the less, this was the respons I got... Vista doesn't get shipped with IE6, right ? I should be honest and say I haven't tested the site in IE6, hehe... Might wanna do that before release.
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Fred K

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 02:38:25 PM »

Did the client explain more in detail why he/she/it thought it looke like $hi***? If not, saying it looks like crap might be colourful but hardly qualifies as constructive criticism. Perhaps the client just doesn't get it..?
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Keyrocks

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 02:46:09 PM »

Did the client explain more in detail why he/she/it thought it looke like $hi***? If not, saying it looks like crap might be colourful but hardly qualifies as constructive criticism. Perhaps the client just doesn't get it..?
Patric... I tend to agree with Fred. It's not enough to say something "looks like sh**..." unless the critic is willing and able to demonstrate WHAT it is they are not satisfied with... all part of the communication thing. You can't be expected to respond to something you cannot see. None-the-less... you might want to view the thing on a Vista machine to see for your self if anything strange is occuring.
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Joost

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2008, 12:11:59 AM »

Are we not only forced to code for differnet browsers and a neglected webstandard, b ut also for an additional M$ OS ? Hav any of you lot experienced this, or even heard of it ?

PS. Just to clearify - The site do validate both CSS and XHTML DS.

I work like this:
- First priority is to write valid (x)html. That's the best way to avoid rare (undocumented) bugs.
- Then I make it look good in FF
- After that I'll make it look good in IE. It doesn't necessarily have to be pixel perfect, if it  looks good and is functional , that's fine. No one is going to measure differences.
- Valid css? I don't care, but if possible, yes.

When working for a client it is an absolute must to make it look good in IE 6 and 7. For that reason working on (for  :'( ) Windows is an absolute necessity.

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Patric Ahlqvist

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2008, 09:01:36 AM »

@Fred - No not really, but my middleman saw some screens (which he tossed) and compared them with what he saw on his Mac (in FF) and that didn't look good or the same according to him.

@Doug - So it is. And I would like to see it in Vista IE if I had a chance, but I don't know anyone hehe...

@Joost - I work in similar way, only my number one is valid xhtml and CSS.

and as I said, I might have some differences in IE6 as I haven't checked that...yet. How about if I post the working example here (don't work as it's not named index.php) and Onno... Could you have a looksie in Vista for me ?

http://impolin.com/index_snews.php (Mind you, this is client influenced layout, I had a slightly different approach ;) )
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Keyrocks

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2008, 03:04:33 PM »

@ Patric... it looks just fine to me in IE7 and FF on WinXP. I have not experienced layout variations due to different OSs... just different browsers. This alleged VISTA issue is puzzling. BTW... I don't know anyone close by who uses VISTA either... or I'd have them take a look.  :P
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brauck

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2008, 12:07:02 PM »

Quote
Onno... Could you have a looksie in Vista for me

Sorry for the late response, was at work on location yesterday.

Design looks good and stable in Vista/IE7 on my laptop
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Patric Ahlqvist

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2008, 03:53:26 PM »

Thanks guy's... Found that same dilemma, Bob, in IE7 here... Dang me for thinking I was done ;) Now I only have to figure out why the hell that is... And I must say I'm not too kean on having to do this... My little fever is haunting my eye's and head... ah, well... It'll come to me in my dreams, eh ?
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Patric Ahlqvist

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2008, 05:15:23 PM »

Ok, help needed I think... Atleast I'm stuck.

I have fiddudled (Phils been kind enough to offer insight aswell) but there still is an issue I simply don't understand...

FF, Opera not an issue at all. IE still shows the banner (menu fixed) off in reduced and just duced, hehe... viewport, until you refresh, then the banner pops back into place... It's so freakishly odd, and I don't get it. Any input ?
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Keyrocks

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 07:55:10 PM »

Ok, help needed I think... Atleast I'm stuck.
I have fiddudled (Phils been kind enough to offer insight aswell) but there still is an issue I simply don't understand...
FF, Opera not an issue at all. IE still shows the banner (menu fixed) off in reduced and just duced, hehe... viewport, until you refresh, then the banner pops back into place... It's so freakishly odd, and I don't get it. Any input ?
Hmmm... not sure if there is a clue in this or not, but I remember... some time ago... you had done a template that had a guy's hands attached to the top edge of the header section and... when moused over, the header revealed the face... (something like that) and I think it had a blue background. I remember experiencing a similar problem viewing it at the time... in IE6... the header would appear as a white panel when first moused over and then appear properly after a refresh. Maybe it was one of your 1.4 templates? Maybe you solved that problem and taking a look there (if you still have it) might offer a possible solution?

I have applied IE7-specific style declarations to correct display problems by prefixing a second declaration for the problem element and prefixing it with * html.
As an example:

Quote
#contents /* For all browsers excluding IE7 & down */
      position: fixed; padding-top: 20px; top: 150px; left: 50px; bottom: 40px; right: 0; overflow: auto; }
   * html #contents /* for IE7 & down ONLY */
     height: 100%;  width: 100%;  padding: 20px 50px; }

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Patric Ahlqvist

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2008, 09:23:05 AM »

Thanks, Doug... Yes, I have those specific browser declarations for IE6/7, FF ans Opera where needed aswell (reffered to at bottom), atleast I think so, hehe... Might have missed something here... The site you're reffering to, could it be this one: http://p-ahlqvist.com/sNews/patric_17/index.php ?

I can't find anything in there specificly made for IE use ;( Might try and remove the #mygallery part of it all and don't bother with rotator there... Seems as if they wanna have just that ugly logo and nothing else anyways, so... Might, perhaps, possibly do something. On it later as I still can't access the server from work.

I'm grateful for everybody's willingness to aid me. Thanks guy's.

Syntax:
Quote
hackthingy - followed by the styledeclaration you need to change
For IE 6 and below:
Quote
* html h1{margin:14em 0;}
For IE 7 and below:
Quote
*:first-child+html * html h1{margin:99em 0;}
For IE 7 only:
Quote
*:first-child+html h1{margin:99em 0;}
For IE 7 and modern browsers only:
Quote
html>body h1{margin:99em 0;}
For Modern browsers only (not IE 7):
Quote
html>/**/body h1{margin:99em 0;}
For Opera:
Quote
html:first-child h1{margin:207em 0;}

FF seems to be doing alrighty when just following the webstandards, so hacks are for the rest of the browser world... A nice site for this is: http://www.javascriptkit.com/dhtmltutors/csshacks2.shtml
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 09:37:19 AM by Patric Ahlqvist »
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Keyrocks

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 06:18:03 PM »

The site you're reffering to, could it be this one: http://p-ahlqvist.com/sNews/patric_17/index.php ?
I can't find anything in there specificly made for IE use
Yepp... that's the one. I just viewed that link in IE7 and the header image is still doing what it did for me before in IE6... when I mouse over the header image of they partly hidden guy... a few times... the image doesn't change right away but shows a white space... then it finally changes over about the 4th or 5th mouse-over. So I guess that problem still exists.  :)
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Fred K

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Re: Designing websites - Vista.
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 10:29:14 PM »

I have to say that I didn't quite get what is meant by "modern browsers" that is used a couple of times in the javaskriptkit.com article you linked to, Patric. In this context, I mean. "Modern browsers" (basically every new browser except IE) will not need hacks except in rare occasions if the xhtml and css follows w3c standards.

For example, the hack mentioned above for Modern browsers only
html>/**/body h1{margin:99em 0;}
is exactly the same as html>body h1{margin:99em 0;} or even h1{margin:99em 0;}. Meaning that the hack itself is pretty meaningless for standards compliant browsers.

I don't have a good answer to the question why the header moves in IE though. But I do think that using conditional statements coupled with IE-specific styles is a better way to get around it than resorting to hacks. But, that's just my opinion.
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